How I see it

Psalm 23 1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2  He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3  He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 5  Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6  Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
 
(Psa 3:8 KJV)  Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.
 
(Job 34:11 KJV)  For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
 
(Job 34:12 KJV)  Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
 
(Jer 2:13 KJV)  For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
 
I cannot but help to notice firstly in Churches, in books, on the INTERNET that the Bible is rarely directly quoted.. the Bible is not the primary message. The opinion of the so called Christian leaders, pastors, human views and human reasoning are exalted everywhere over the Word of God wrongfully too, and contrary to the Bible now too... it is the devil basically who is behind this
Should  also  teachings or messages be made available free of charge to anyone and everyone? and why are they not doing so? Is it  because many people have faith in money and still not in God, they wrongfully live for the money and even abuse it, steal it  too still?
The Consuming fire

In real earthly life there are at least two major errors most people daily make..


They personally follow after false values, false leaders.. they follow after their own sinful desires, mere corrupted human logic, reasoning and not God... this is associated with the sin of presumption
 
(Prov 14:12 KJV)  There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
 
(Prov 14:14 KJV)  The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself.
 
(Prov 14:15 KJV)  The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
 
(Prov 14:16 KJV)  A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
and

2 They take a good value and go to the E X T R E M E with it, they go overboard with it... the sin of excess.

Now every hear someone say you should personaly speak in toungues all the time for example?

when actually any spiritual gift of God, the Holy Spirit still has to be used only when God tells you to use it.. it is always subject to God, his will, his timing, his place.. even Moses died cause he disobeyed God and used his gift more times than God had told him too.
 
(Num 20:11 KJV)  And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.12  And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.
 
 (Deu 34:5 KJV)  So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

Note this extreme act will negatively consume people.. and their physical and spiritual being too.. it will be rather a destroying fire in their life and not a gentle blessing
 
A great preacher died at the age of 28 because God had told me while he respected, honored God's spiritual laws, he neglected God's physical laws, such as looking after his own good health too.

(Psa 50:21 KJV) These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

(Psa 50:22 KJV) Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

(Prov 30:6 KJV) Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

(Jer 2:19 KJV) Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts. 20 For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.

Yes God says

(Zep 1:2 KJV) I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD.

(Zep 1:3 KJV) I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD.

(Zec 5:4 KJV) I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

(Dan 2:44 KJV) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

(Ezek 22:15 KJV) And I will scatter thee among the heathen, and disperse thee in the countries, and will consume thy filthiness out of thee.

(Ezek 13:13 KJV) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.

(Ezek 20:13 KJV) But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

(Jer 8:13 KJV) I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.

(Jer 14:12 KJV) When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.

(Isa 10:18 KJV) And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth.

(Isa 27:10 KJV) Yet the defenced city shall be desolate, and the habitation forsaken, and left like a wilderness: there shall the calf feed, and there shall he lie down, and consume the branches thereof.

(Psa 37:20 KJV) But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

(Deu 7:16 KJV) And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.

(Deu 32:22 KJV) For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

(Josh 24:20 KJV) If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

(Est 9:24 KJV) Because Haman the son of Hammedatha, the Agagite, the enemy of all the Jews, had devised against the Jews to destroy them, and had cast Pur, that is, the lot, to consume them, and to destroy them;

(2 Ki 1:10 KJV) And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

(Job 15:34 KJV) For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.

(2 Ki 1:12 KJV) And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

(Neh 9:31 KJV) Nevertheless for thy great mercies' sake thou didst not utterly consume them, nor forsake them; for thou art a gracious and merciful God.

(Psa 39:11 KJV) When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity, thou makest his beauty to consume away like a moth: surely every man is vanity. Selah.

(Psa 49:14 KJV) Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

(Psa 59:13 KJV) Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be: and let them know that God ruleth in Jacob unto the ends of the earth. Selah.

(2 Th 2:8 KJV) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Here next is an example of Jesus own disciples going to the extreme.. with consumation

(Luke 9:54 KJV) And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

(James 4:3 KJV) Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
(Acts 8:19 KJV)  Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20  But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21   Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22  Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

and the same Fire can be a blessing or a curse.. it can heat or destroy..
 
For GOD IS STILL ALSO JUST AND HOLY
 
(Deu 9:3 KJV)  Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
 
(Heb 12:28 KJV)  Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:  29   For our God is a consuming fire.
 
(Deu 4:24 KJV)  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Faith in God How I see it.

Heb 10:38 (KJV) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him

On the one hand many preachers preach that we all must live daily by faith, by faith in God to supply all of our needs but on the other hand they clearly beg for money, donations, even by way of mailing lists.. they look unto man to supply their needs and not God in reality.. to me this is both hypocritical and contradictory and unacceptable.. to me these people are still the "Hirelings" that Jesus spoke about, even the "money changes" he kicked out of the temple, those people who instead of freely giving, put copyrights on their material and sell it to others.. for sadly too many even professing Christians have still even now made their the acquisition, pursuit of money, the false love for all of the things that money can buy, as their false idol, and one of their false goal in life, and as a result they now personally do not really have love for God, love for his people or love for others... and this is still really unacceptable to God.
 
The Church is still made up of all of the believers and not just one denomination..

1 Tim 6:10 KJV) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows

(John 2:15 KJV) And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

(John 2:16 KJV) And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

(Mat 10:8 KJV) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

(Mat 10:9 KJV) Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

Why is it that so many persons who preach it to others do not practice it firstly themselves? Personal repentance included? So why is it they cannot change themselves? They are evidently are unwilling to do so. . Do you really think there is such a thing as a little bit pregnant, a little bit sin being allowed now especially for pastors? when you see even their sins of abuses of others you clearly are still just seeing the tip of the iceberg. It is an indication of idols in their own life that they are unwilling to give up

I personaly do rightfully have a problem with the so called but still to me very immoral Christians persons, rather thieves , hirelings to me who are still trying to make money from the Gospel, Bibles, tapes, videos, Books, seminars now as well. No such thing as a little bit pregamnt here too. I am rightfully no fan supporter of any hireling that tries to make money of the Gospel.. not of any of them.. I rightfully have no use for Christian Ministries, Pastors, persons who ask or beg for money too. They clearly and wrongfully are not living by faith in God.

(Psa 37:25 KJV) I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread

I have actually for years pastored a congregation and I had never once took any offering or ever asked any one for money for any of the lord's work, I look to God in prayer to supply all, all of my needs and I still do.. In fact for years I used to put up about a hundred free christian books on a roack to read, to take, to keep at the back of the church and guess what some people objected even to my freely giving minsitry in the church.. I guess jealous elders included.

What really works for me is I make up a Lord Willing Prayer list... I put all the items I need, I want to buy, even want to do and I wait till God help me to do it

(John 10:11 KJV) I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down (freely) my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

By the way I also do believe that the first donations in any church should go to the poor and needy in the church and that according to the Bible, Pastors, Ministers are not allowed to own any properties, land too

(Prov 11:1 KJV)  A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.
 
(Heb 12:1 KJV)  Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
Mat 24:12 KJV) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold

(1 John 2:15 KJV) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him

(1 John 3:17 KJV) But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him

(1 John 3:16 KJV) Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren
(Mark 13:34 KJV)  For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
 
(Mat 20:1 KJV)  For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2  And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3  And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4  And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. 5  Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. 6  And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 7  They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. 8  So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9  And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10  But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11  And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12  Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13  But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14  Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15  Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
 
This verse clearly says that God pays all his workers the same pay for  and yet we see such great differences in evangelists and pastors salaries, some earring hundreds of thousands of dollars and all contrary to how God behaves in this still now too now.
 
(Luke 12:42 KJV)  And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

>>" I agree. Many churches, across all the denominations (whether true or false), ask for money in the wrong way. Don't forget these verses from Matthew:"

Matthew 6:24 NKJV:"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."

Matthew 6:31 NKJV Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'

Matthew 6:32 NKJV  For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

Matthew 6:33 NKJV But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Matthew 6:34 NKJV  Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Yes I do belive that es even too many Churches use a secular approach..  I remember I once took a Sales course in Real Estate.. to become a realtor.. actually it realy was how to deceive, lie to the customers.. and they had the almost identical same course in many churches as an evangelism course too

(Mat 7:22 KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Mat 7:23 KJV) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

(1 Ki 2:4 KJV) That the LORD may continue his word which he spake concerning me, saying, If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee (said he) a man on the throne of Israel.

(1 Ki 8:23 KJV) And he said, LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart:

(Psa 78:37 KJV) For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.

(Psa 95:10 KJV) Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

(Eccl 9:3 KJV) This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

(Isa 29:13 KJV) Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

(Jer 5:24 KJV) Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

(Jer 13:10 KJV) This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.

(Jer 14:14 KJV) Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

(Ezek 14:3 KJV) Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be inquired of at all by them?

(Ezek 33:31 KJV) And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they show much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.

(Mat 13:15 KJV) For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

(Mat 15:8 KJV) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

(2 Cor 3:15 KJV) But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

(Eph 4:18 KJV) Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

(Heb 3:10 KJV) Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
 
God called me to be a Pastor, to minister full time to his people, but I did not accept it , in fact not next for about 20 years, and I had many false excuses.. excuses like  I was praying for the other people, pastors, even one specifically who next turned out to be an adulterer and he had children by another person who was not his wife.. and God next dealt with me through a series of negative dramatic events like the loss of my job, health, family, even still  I had another excuse too I was too bad of a sinner to be a pastor to which God replied and said if a gay pastor can pastor so can you.. that finally broke all my excuses too I agreed to be a Pastor for God.. God then had said to me enough is enough I am tired of you living a self indulged life serving vanities, and now next you will usefully work for me.. and testify of me even before "Kings and Queens".. which I did for the next 20 years too.
Now there are still also at least six major things wrong with the North Americanized Gospel being preached falsely today even worldwide,
 
1 It is mostly man centered religion and not rather God centered, it still tends to exalts man, self, pride..not rather solely Jesus Christ ....
 
(2 Tim 3:1 KJV) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
 
and not rather (1 Cor 2:2 KJV) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
 
Furthermore it is undeniably clear that too many pastors, elders  are even  wrongfully pursing secular wealth, the owning of bigger and better homes, working at insuring adequate pensions moneys for themselves while neglecting to minister to the physical, spiritual needs of God's people.
 
Did you know that Marriage counseling is the main and biggest ministry  today, it is the big need in churches today and yet still most pastor do even wrongfully refuse to do it, they rather even too many of them do wrongfully counsel divorce..
 
The issues THAT I have dealt with here TOO are important, issues that I personally have been concerned with the last 35 years to they are issues that need to be dealt with still.
 
On the one hand many preachers preach that we all must live daily by faith, by faith in God to supply all of our needs but on the other hand they clearly beg for money, donations, even by wayoff mailing lists too.. they look unto man to supply their needs and not God in reality.. to me this is both hypocritical and contradictory and unacceptable.. to me these people are still the "Hirelings" that Jesus spoke about, even the "money changes" he kicked out of the temple, those people who instead of freely giving, put copyrights on their material and sell it to others.. for sadly too many even professing Christians have still even now made their the acquisition, pursuit of money, the false love for all of the things that money can buy, as their false idol, and one of their false goal in life, and as a result they now personally do not really have love for God, love for his people or love for others... and this is still really unacceptable to God.

1 Tim 6:10 KJV) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows

(John 2:15 KJV) And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

(John 2:16 KJV) And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

(Mat 10:8 KJV) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

(Mat 10:9 KJV) Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

and there's also a verse that says that you shouldn't muzzle an ox while it's threshing.

Too sadly I have actually heard this verse quoted by mamy persons justifying stealing from their employers..
 
"God demands also of the Pastor that he be holy, and he should be. There are more people walking in the counsel of the pastors than any other class of men in the world. When they are sad, they are glad to counsel with their pastor, and when they are happy and enjoying life, they delight in telling their pastor. So his counsel is constantly being sought and his advice taken. God pity the pastor who though does not feel the responsibility."
 
The Old Testament book of Malachi was written to specifically to Pastors stealing God's money.. and going along with divorce wrongfully too.  I have been a treasurer, church secretary and a wittiness and I have too often seen pastors and elders stealing the donated money for wrong personal use.. and often.. it is only a realy big shock the first time..

In reality the majority of Pastors today are ungodly, and so out of curiosity I interviewed many, many of them personally to see how they arrived at that poor spiritual state.. a state of cheating, lying, stealing, slandering, gossiping, committing sexual immoralities too..  I have actually directly interviewed about 75 evangelical pastors, and I helped to fire about 12 or more of them too.. and most Pastors almost all did not pray daily or read their bible daily, or even use the Bible in counseling.. sad.. they are hireling, pretenders, imposters. Some of the most crooked Pastor I met were clearly not called for the ministry and I specifically asked them how they went into the ministry,, A really bad pastor that I loved used to preach out of books and not the Bible, he used to always ask for a monetary raise every time it seems one person was saved or added to the church, like many pastors I met he also liked to rig the supposedly fair church elections for the persons of his choice to the positions too. Trying to be nice , hoping to change him I asked him two personal questions. Pastor did God specifically call you into the Ministry? and is their such thing as power to live a Christian life? He replied no to both questions.. so how can he teach, lead others? he could not.. he was drastically removed. The reason he because a Pastor was that he wanted his Masters of Business administration but he could not afford to go to college so he went to Bible collage, and running the church was the same as running a business he said to me..Boy he needed to be pastored himself but his unrepentant sins stopped this.And he lost his church eventually, the church he had founded for he was exposed for not being called to the minsitry.. not equipped by it. Over 40 percent of pastora are fired more than once it seems..
 
Now as far as personally Giving.. a clearly separate subject.. We are to give of ourselves personally daily to God... and then all we have is his to use as he wills.. furthermore the Book of acts says we are in the local church to also firstly give to the poor Christians, and not only to the pastors, building funds, missionaries.. and how many churches now actually do this these days give to the poor.. it is the government who does it rather.. it supplies the social aid.
 
I am also not against voluntary tithing to the Lord Jesus Christ, or voluntary giving to the Lord Jesus Christ, AND to the poor persons. I am against trying to earn, buy your way into heaven, and also giving on the too often false man defined mandates that the still mostly false pastors themselves do define it.. by the too many mostly false pastors?
 
A personal desire to be a Pastor is not enough.. for you have to be specially be first called directly by God for the Ministry.. My own father agreed with me today on this and he said that was the biggest reason we have so many bad pastors, they were not called by God for the ministry

and now if God had called, hired you then next he directly will pay you.. does not even your secular employer pay you after you have been hired.. but if you have not been hired by a firm then you cannot expect them to pay you,..
 
By the way the term Pastor is only mentioned once in the whole New Testament and why? cause there are many other offices God calls us to as well.. like the office of a Missionary, Apostle, prophet, evangelist, healing, elder, deacon, minister, etc., It is my rightful view view that Churches are not at all run by any Pastor, but RUN only by Jesus Christ and the elders (always plural), and note this they are all shepherds.. all of the elders i.e. apostles, prophets, teachers are all the shepherds of the Church)Pastor as plural too is mentioned only once in the NEW TESTAMENT and yet a whole false doctrine of their sole importance today is made, and that reference Pastor included also apostles, prophets, evangelist, and I do not care to believe in the still mostly lies of men but only what the Bible teaches itself.
 
(2 Cor 9:10 KJV) Now he that MINISTEReth seed to the sower both MINISTER bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

Note the sole New Testament reference to the term Pastor is still only a plural one.. and also clearly along with with the presently existing other gifted offices now too.Truly I am rightfully disappointed with those Pastors who to elevate their own self importance mislead others, misquote the Bible by even now making the term "pastor" a singular term only.. a fact not supported in the New Testament Bible. There are many shepherds of the one local church, flock, many pastors, not just the one. These false pastors would like us also all to believe that they are the individual owners of the sheep as well and we have to obey them in all things. But Personal Submission is always mutual and voluntary.

(Eph 4:11 KJV) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

(1 Cor 16:16 KJV) That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth.
 
(Heb 13:17 KJV) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

(Psa 51:17 KJV) The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
 
Thus the Pastors need to obey as well the existing Apostles and the existing prophets today..
 
The New Testament word MINISTER rightfully used to mean to be a humble shepherd feeding God's flock but today it sadly has visible connotations of an air of superiority, of abusing others, of being worshipped, admired, being served upon, of self exaltations and self service even. Too many Pastors seem also do not like to be called SHEPHERDS, THEY LIKE TO USE THE SECULAR WORD LEADERS.. even a captain of the ship.. and this makes me think of "Mutiny on the Bounty". Pastors, elders are al servants who are to minister to all of God's people.

(Mat 20:26 KJV) But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your MINISTER;

(Mat 20:28 KJV) Even as the Son of man came not to be MINISTERed unto, but to MINISTER, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(Mat 25:44 KJV) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not MINISTER unto thee?

(Rom 15:16 KJV) That I should be the MINISTER of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, MINISTERing the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

(Rom 15:25 KJV) But now I go unto Jerusalem to MINISTER unto the saints.

(Rom 15:27 KJV) It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to MINISTER unto them in carnal things.

(Eph 3:7 KJV) Whereof I was made a MINISTER, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power

Once again the words man, men, MINISTER to me are generic terms, includes male and females, both male and females can be shepherds in the house of God?

(1 Pet 5:2 KJV) Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

(Jer 48:10 KJV) Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.

"Though Paul had the right to receive support from the Church as the scriptures point out, he didn't use the right. He supported himself by his efforts as a tent maker."

(Mat 10:8 KJV)  Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.9   Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 
 
I in my own personal Christian Ministry the last 30 years.. I even had for years regular church meetings, and I never once took an offering even, God always himself supplied me with a car, bank account, furniture, food, computers and anything else I needed, such as physical healing too. But I live by faith in God to provide, not faith in man.
 
But did God put a copyright as well on his material.. pr did God gave it all freely to be given out freely too...

Christians are here to live by faith for God to supply all of their needs and not try to earn it all, or try to earn their way to heaven next too ..

 I remember this greedy, immoral professing Christian lawyer who claimed to uphold the laws of the country too and when it came time to collect his fees he selfishly applied the letter of the law over the spirit of the law..
 
While God recognizes personal ownership and personal accountability, personal stewrdship too  there are other Biblica;l laws that have to also be observed, such as sharing what we have, and that all we have also still belongs to God.. when we talk about ownership rights we tend  not also say that everything belongs to God and that God owns everything, you and me included, all of our life.. it is not our own at all..   and by the way did you know that the old testament prophet who took falsely an earthly reward was next punished with the sin of leprosy.. and I know that  bilical warning also applies now to many of these money hungry preachers, authors too.. they have now the sins of leprosy, the false love for money, the root of all evil..

I really do still think that anyone, anyone who asks for the money is an immoral vulture, a hireling, crudely a prostitue..  I rightfully do think it is also immoral also for any preacher to live in, own a $300,000 home FOR EXAMPLE and many do as well.. this is not from God too.
 
Like Ii have openly said I have to admit that three of my biggest shocks in encountering, dealing with many evangelical pastors in Canada are...
  1. that most still are hirelings, concerned about money, and will lie, steal to get it as well.
  2.  they do not provide domestic, marital counseling excuse they are sex maniacs themselves, most of them thus also wrongfully like to leave the option of martial divorce open, that in case even their own wife does not meet their sexual needs they can divorce her and get another, and that is why they readily counsel divorce for other persons
  3.  they personally rarely do read, apply the bible, in their own homes, or even in their counseling..
I have often wondered how can I expect the Canadian the politicians, and were are reading world wide the corruption, the sponsorship scandals of the past, present Liberal governments, to be decent, good moral persons when the pastors themselves wrongfully too often still do lead such a poor personal example in Canada
(Psa 1:6 KJV)  For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
 
(Psa 3:5 KJV)  I laid me down and slept; I awaked; for the LORD sustained me.
 
(Psa 6:8 KJV)  Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
 
(Psa 31:23 KJV)  O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.
 
(Psa 33:20 KJV)  Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield.
 
(Psa 37:24 KJV)  Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
 
(Psa 37:28 KJV)  For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
 
(Psa 40:1 KJV)   I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.
 
(Psa 47:2 KJV)  For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
 
(Psa 69:33 KJV)  For the LORD heareth the poor, and despiseth not his prisoners.
 
(Psa 84:11 KJV)  For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.
 
(Psa 89:18 KJV)  For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
 
(Psa 94:14 KJV)  For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.
 
(Psa 95:3 KJV)  For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.
 
(Psa 96:4 KJV)  For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods.
 
(Psa 99:9 KJV)  Exalt the LORD our God, and worship at his holy hill; for the LORD our God is holy.
 
(Psa 100:5 KJV)  For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
 
(Psa 116:7 KJV)  Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee.
 
(Psa 130:5 KJV)  I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.
 
(Psa 130:6 KJV)  My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.
 
(Psa 132:5 KJV)  Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.
 
(Psa 132:13 KJV)  For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
 
(Psa 135:3 KJV)  Praise the LORD; for the LORD is good: sing praises unto his name; for it is pleasant.
 
(Psa 135:4 KJV)  For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.
 
(Psa 135:14 KJV)  For the LORD will judge his people, and he will repent himself concerning his servants.
 
(Psa 149:4 KJV)  For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
 
(Prov 2:6 KJV)  For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
 
(Prov 3:26 KJV)  For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.
 
(Prov 22:23 KJV)  For the LORD will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them.
 
(Rev 3:2 KJV)  Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
(2 Cor 5:9 KJV)  Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
 
(2 Cor 5:10 KJV)  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
 
(Heb 9:27 KJV)  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
 
(Eccl 3:2 KJV)  A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
 
(Phil 1:21 KJV)  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
 
(John 14:1 KJV)  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4  And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5  Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7  If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8  Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.  9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11  Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13  And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  14  If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.  16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18  I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19  Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21  He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22  Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24  He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25  These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27  Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.  
 
(2 Cor 5:6 KJV)  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
 
(2 Cor 5:8 KJV)  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 
(Job 19:26 KJV)  And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: 27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
(Psa 37:4 KJV)  Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
 
(Num 14:8 KJV)  If the LORD delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which floweth with milk and honey.
 
Here were, are the too common sins that Christian leaders, persons do even today
1: they have forsaken God's ways, teachings, values, commandments
2: they are pursing their own chosen idols
3: they are proud of what they have done, accomplished and fail to admit God's sovereignty, contribution in all of it.
4: they in their false pride they even abuse other christians
and they will not get away with it still unpunished by God even..
 
(1 Sam 15:22 KJV)  And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
 
(Psa 1:2 KJV)  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
 
(Psa 16:3 KJV)  But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.
 
(Psa 37:11 KJV)  But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
 
(Psa 40:8 KJV)  I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
 
(Psa 94:19 KJV)  In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul.
 
(Psa 119:16 KJV)  I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
 
(Psa 119:24 KJV)  Thy testimonies also are my delight and my counsellors.
 
(Psa 119:35 KJV)  Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight.
 
(Psa 119:47 KJV)  And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
 
(Psa 119:70 KJV)  Their heart is as fat as grease; but I delight in thy law.
 
(Psa 119:77 KJV)  Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.
 
(Psa 119:174 KJV)  I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
 
(Prov 11:1 KJV)  A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.
 
(Prov 11:20 KJV)  They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.
 
(Prov 12:22 KJV)  Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.
 
(Prov 15:8 KJV)  The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
 
(Prov 16:13 KJV)  Righteous lips are the delight of kings; and they love him that speaketh right.
 
(Prov 18:2 KJV)  A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
 
(Prov 19:10 KJV)  Delight is not seemly for a fool; much less for a servant to have rule over princes.
 
(Prov 24:25 KJV)  But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.
 
(Prov 29:17 KJV)  Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul.
 
(Isa 1:11 KJV)  To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
 
(Isa 55:2 KJV)  Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
 
(Jer 9:24 KJV)  But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
 
(Mal 3:1 KJV)  Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
 
(Rom 7:22 KJV)  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
 
(Jer 1:16 KJV)  And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands.
 
(Jer 2:7 KJV)  And I brought you into a plentiful country, to eat the fruit thereof and the goodness thereof; but when ye entered, ye defiled my land, and made mine heritage an abomination.
 
(Jer 2:8 KJV)  The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
 
(Jer 2:11 KJV)  Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.
 
(Jer 2:12 KJV)  Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.
 
(Jer 2:13 KJV)  For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
 
(Jer 2:18 KJV)  And now what hast thou to do in the way of Egypt, to drink the waters of Sihor? or what hast thou to do in the way of Assyria, to drink the waters of the river?
 
(Jer 2:19 KJV)  Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
 
(Ezek 9:1 KJV)  He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand. 2  And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brazen altar. 3  And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; 4  And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. 5  And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6  Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7  And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. 8  And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem? 9  Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not. 10  And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head. 11  And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
 
(Mat 18:5 KJV)  And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
 
(Mat 18:6 KJV)  But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
 
(Jer 23:1 KJV)  Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
 
(Ezek 34:2 KJV)  Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
 
(Mal 2:8 KJV)  But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
 
(Jer 18:15 KJV)  Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up;
 
(Jer 2:31 KJV)  O generation, see ye the word of the LORD. Have I been a wilderness unto Israel? a land of darkness? wherefore say my people, We are lords; we will come no more unto thee?
 
(Jer 2:35 KJV)  Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned
 
(Gal 6:7 KJV)  Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
(Luke 16:10 KJV)  He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
 
(Luke 16:11 KJV)  If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
 
(Luke 16:12 KJV)  And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
 
(Luke 16:13 KJV)  No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
 
(Luke 16:15 KJV)  And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17  And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. 18  Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. 19  There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20  And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25  But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29  Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30  And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31  And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
(Luke 17:1 KJV)  Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2  It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
 
(Luke 17:3 KJV)  Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. 
 
A Christian Brother that I have known personally for  many years   I personally  had priory  witnessed the same brother and his wife cheating, lying, stealing, slandering, abusing others,  even committing tax evasions AND they now still claim to be honest   Christian orators themselves.   Their supporting churches EVEN endorses  these bad husband and bad wife  still cause they readily give 10 percent of their incomes and they do this  still no matter how they got it too. And while you will see on the Internet their own Christian books, their OWN writings about Biblical prosperity, these same persons now  firstly do not seem to talk abut helping any of the poor persons with it... for they despised them instead as I had observed firsthand many times too. One's attitude towards helping the poor persons show more truth than one's thousands words of preaching to others too... and no one can deny what I had personally witnessed and saw too in their immoral computer business and personal practices... I had myself HAD asked them personally to repent of their listed wrong doings and they had refused to do so... and there was  a witness of this too.

Over the last many years there are two things that ready astound me still

1: Firstly it is really always amazing still to me as to how many the still mostly self centred Christian and non Christians persons wrongfully still do wrongfully believe that they will not reap here on earth personally any negative consequences for their own unrepentant sins here on earth, and what God still punishes people personally for their OWN wrong doing here on earth? of course!

Note this also that the length of our personal life on earth is related to how we personally do treat our parents, children, others as well as our own righteous works too..

(Some people are sick as a direct result of punishment of God where as others are sick cause they are afflicted by the devil because they are doing God's work

2: The second thing that really astounds me IS that people are so quick to judge others but not FIRSTLY not themselves.
 
and...
 
(Luke 16:9 KJV)  And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. 10  He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. 11  If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12  And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? 13  No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 14  And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15  And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17  And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. 18  Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
 
I personally was really flabbergasted to firsthand observe that the topic of giving, tithing, money was often followed by the topic of adultery, divorce and not just in the book of Malachi but in the above verses..  what people divorce over  money too?? not just sex?
 
The Water downed milked Christians often do not want to hear any negative messages, they like only the fast, instant meals, rather the non nourishing ones.
 
Jesus, Repentance of our sins is an other  thing that unites us.,and the Bible as well.

Jesus and the Apostles too cared how the money was exchanged in the church.. it was an indication of one's values.I have no fear of an honest, open dicussion as long as the relevant Bible passage is quoted directly..
 
(Luke 16:11 KJV) If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

in reality all of of the prophets used negative messages to warn the others even, even about the man false prophet, false teachers, hireling..

One of Jesus own first act was negative.. chasing the hrielings, money lenders out of the temple.. the apostles dealt with the issue of donations now too..

(Acts 5:9 KJV) Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

In the book of Acts the death of Ananias, is negative, one of the Apostle own negative act was to deal with monetary falsehoods in the church.

(Acts 5:3 KJV) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

Firstly I am still rightfully concerned that too many people do not really have faith in God.. they have faith in others, they have faith in money, they are trying to buy their way into heaven clearly.. and what Church can one go to that tithing, where the giving of money is not mentioned.. but now are the Donations to the church now spend God's ways or still man's ways.

For instance how many churches spend the tithe directly to help the poor people first in their church, as instructed per the bible.. and this is not an option

if we took out all the negatives in the Bible we would have to rip out 3/4 of the bible.

(Luke 12:3 KJV)  Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
 
(Luke 12:4 KJV)  And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
 
(Luke 12:5 KJV)  But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
 
"I definitely don't like the idea of passing of the plate. no matter who you are, or if you donated last week instead of this one, when you see this plate passing your way you feel bad and judged when you don't put anything in there. it is especially awkward when you are the only one in the row and you have to shake your head in the usher's face. I think that idea of bins set up at the exit of the worship hall is a better idea. "

I too do prefer the collection Bins at the end of the worship service.. and not the money collection before the services..

(Heb 10:38 KJV) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

I had always wanted to live in a dormitory with other students, and God had next answered my prayer.. I next lived in a halfway house with about 5 very poor Bible college students, and we used this home also for Ministry, prayer and worship meetings too.

What we did each week was we used to post specifically what food we wanted to eat on a list, we would pray for the list, and we would next watch miraculously God supply us the specifics on our list too.. This went on for many many months too. But one day it stopped altogether and I prayed to God as to why and he replied theft.. a Bible college student person in the house was stealing the food and selling it elsewhere for money.. he had wanted money to entertain his girl friend.. and who would have expected a Bible college student to steal too?

and here was the other thing I had observed.. sadly most people did not change spirituality going through the Bible college.. what they were like before they went to the Bible college was often what they were like next in the ministry as well.

The pastor of the church that ran the Bible college had next asked us to collect money to keep the halfway house open as a ministry for others.. we weekly went door to door and collected about 17,000 dollars in donations.. but the pastor had lied, he had made up his mind to close the home, he pocketed the Cash for himself.. needless to say I confronted him, he refused to repent, and he next lost the church he founded.. it went into bankruptcy.

The same pastor had 28 relatives out of 30 people on the church payroll, he mostly would not hire any non relatives, the budget for the church was 1.2 million dollars per year... they all lost their jobs next too.
 
I used to say that Jesus never passed the plate.. at least for money..  except Jesus did take a bread offering to feed his listeners.. and he also had instructed his disciples to feed them physically, not just spiritually..

(Mark 6:35 KJV) And when the day was now far spent, his disciples came unto him, and said, This is a desert place, and now the time is far passed: 36 Send them away, that they may go into the country round about, and into the villages, and buy themselves bread: for they have nothing to eat.37 He answered and said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they say unto him, Shall we go and buy two hundred pennyworth of bread, and give them to eat?38 He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five, and two fishes.

But my whole issue has been that as the Children of Israel in the wilderness for fourty years trusted God to give them food as well all Christians need to daily live by faith that God will supply what they need.

The pastor George Mueller 1805-1898 used to feed thousands of poor people, orphans freely by faith and he never once asked anyone for a cent. His life characterized by prayer and faith . he committed himself to a full-time gospel ministry. When Mueller was twenty-five, he went to Teignmouth, England, with his new wife, Mary, to pastor a small church. He gave up the small salary offered when he discovered it was paid through the rental of church pews. From that time on he resolved to live by faith. Mueller moved in 1832 to Bristol, England, to be the pastor of another church. There his famous work with the orphans began when two young children were thrown upon the church's care. Mueller had only two shillings to his name when he began the orphanage work, but over the next sixty years God sent more than $7,500,000 to supply their needs. New buildings were built or purchased, staff was hired, and the hundreds of children never missed a meal. Many times prayers were said over empty plates only to have food arrive at the last moment. Mueller resolved never to tell anyone what his needs were. He told them to God and confidently expected them to be met. During his life, Mueller started 117 schools which educated over 120,000 young people and orphans. He became pastor of Bethesda Chapel in Bristol. The church had some 2,000 members at his death. Spurgeon said, "Of flowers of speech he has none, and we hardly think he cares for them; but of the bread of Heaven he has abundance." Near the end of his life he affirmed that he had read the Bible through approximately 200 times, 100 of which was on his knees. He found God's promises in the Bible and experienced the truth of them in his everyday life. He learned to believe what he read and to act accordingly. He learned to tell not man but God his needs and to believe God would supply them. Mueller had mastered the lesson of outlooks--for he lived by the heavenly uplook, and not the earthly outlook!  "The Lord pours in, while we seek to pour out." This was always his plan of operation. He sought God to pour in the supplies, and he diligently furnished sources through which they might be distributed. As long as Mueller saw to the careful distribution of money and supplies, God never failed in pouring in the needed materials. http://www.swordofthelord.com/biographies/mueller.htm
http://www.wholesomewords.org/biography/biorpmueller.html

I next found it very hypocritical and ironic that his followers who advocated us all doing the same thing living by faith in God for all things but they themselves did not give away the books about him freely. they rather sell, sold his books as a source of income, for money for their own ministry.

and some people try to say he George was an exception..
but no everyone needs to live by faith in God to provide daily too.

(Luke 12:27 KJV) Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

(Luke 12:28 KJV) If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

(Luke 12:29 KJV) And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

(Luke 12:30 KJV) For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. 32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

(Mark 6:8 KJV) And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse: 9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.

Too many christian people still do cop out and say we are to only feed people spiritually these days too.

(John 21:17 KJV) He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

(Acts 20:28 KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

(Rom 12:20 KJV) Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

(1 Pet 5:2 KJV) Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

(Rev 7:17 KJV) For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

never the less

(1 Cor 13:3 KJV) And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
 
(Gal 6:7 KJV) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

A few years ago a manager of a local Home Mortgage company had abused me in dealing with a renewal of a Home mortgage.. needless to say I was rightfully upset and I wanted to deal with him immediately but God clearly had asked me leave it in his hand and God he told me he would deal with it. About two years later I started to wonder if I had a mistake, and I was planning to go back to the office and to make a complaint against the manager when my phone rang and a man asked me to sell his home, being a Realtor I jumped at the chance. the next week I had some free time at the Realtor's open house of the home I now had for sale and id decided to pursue my complaint about the bad mortgage manager. When I nexthad called his firm they had told me he had been promoted to vice president for the firm, he was totally in charge also pf it now. But what I had also found out was that the home I had for sale was this vice president of the mortgage company as well.. the home owner had not been totally honest with me again too, in fact he actually had been laid off, he was forced to sell all of his possessions because it was too expensive to move them to his new job location in South Africa. and I was unable to sell the home because it went into foreclosure too, the value of the mortgage exceeded the selling value of the home.. In fact a christian brother and I prayed with this ex home manager and his wife before he left the country.. God has dealt with it fully too.

When I was employed as a professional engineer the purchasing manager did not like me witnessing on the job and he swore that he would fire me, he was hostile with me for many years.. a few years later I had moved, and I was attending a Benny Hinn service, I was asked to pray with some of the people who had come forth at the service. to my own surprise one of the first person I had next prayed with was this same purchasing manager, who was now unemployed, lost his home an and his wife had divorced him... and I prayed with him.

I was discussing with a local pastor my study of tithing per the Bible and how a portion of the tithe should be used to look after the local poor people in the church. I was surprised next when the same local church pastor told me that if I preached those facts at his church he would kick me out of his church. A few years later the very same pastor was laid off.. and he came to me asking for a job cause he could not find one. I did not give him one. He really did not deserve to Pastor anymore.

The senior Pastor of a large church had been unexpectedly slandering me to my surprise. I went to God and I prayed about it and God told me he would take care of it. a few years later I clearly saw a vision, it was a home, and there was a garage sale there.. God next told me he wanted me the following Saturday to go this garage sale and so I did .. when I had arrived there the people having the garage sale were clearly embarrassed to see me.. and I could not understand why? So I prayed about it and God immediately revealed to me that the people were the family of the pastor who had slandered me, they were having a garage sale cause he had lost his job and was moving out of the city and that was why they wee embarrassed to see me there too.

Another local church that was bad mouthing me too.. and again God said to me that he would take care of it.. and as result next very shortly the Sunday school teacher of the very same church was arrested for sexually molesting Sunday school children and now people were talking about them instead

I have had many similar experiences in life..

Not funny how some people think they can get away with it here on earth still too..

(Mat 18:6 KJV) But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! 8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. 10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

(Mat 5:22 KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
 
(1 Cor 1:17 KJV)  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19  For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20  Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21  For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22  For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25  Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26  For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27  But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29  That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30  But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31  That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 
Here is the reality God's truths come by divine relation with him and divine revalation, and not by human reasoning or human understanding.

(Isa 66:1 KJV)  Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
 
(Isa 66:2 KJV)  For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 
 
"Woe be to the shepherds .. that do feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe ye with the wool, ye kill them that are fed; but ye feed not the flock. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and cruelty have ye ruled them." Ezekiel 34;2-4
 
(Luke 16:9 KJV)  And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. 10  He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. 11  If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12  And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? 13  No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 14  And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15  And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17  And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. 18  Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
 
Matt.23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint, and anise, and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith: these ye ought to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

One of Jesus own first act was negative.. chasing the hirelings, money lenders out of the temple.. the apostles dealt with the issue of donations now too..   Jesus and the Apostles too cared how the money was exchanged in the church.. it was an indication of one's values.

(Acts 5:9 KJV) Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

In the book of Acts the death of Ananias, is negative, one of the Apostle own negative act was to deal with monetary falsehoods in the church.

(Acts 5:3 KJV) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

 
 I am still rightfully concerned that too many people do not really have faith in God.. they have faith in others, they have faith in money, they are trying to buy their way into heaven clearly.. and what Church can one go to that tithing, where the giving of money is not mentioned.. but now are the Donations to the church now spend God's ways or still man's ways.

For instance how many churches spend the tithe directly to help the poor people first in their church, as instructed per the bible.. and this is not an option
 
I personally was really flabbergasted to firsthand observe that the topic of giving, tithing, money was often followed by the topic of adultery, divorce and not just in the book of Malachi but in the above verses..  what people divorce over  money too?? not just sex?
 
 What there is a correlation directly between covetous and divorce too?
 
The book of Malachi firstly is about Malachi is rebuking the priests, the Levites. The tithe payable by the Levites, and main subject is not the tithes payable by the people was the unpaid tithe here. Ironic that the tithe collection is still being abused too often today as well by the Church priests, pastors.

The purpose of Hebrews chapter 7 is not to establish a law of tithing, but to show how Jesus Christ was foreshadowed in symbols and figures throughout the Old Testament.

(1 Cor 16:2 KJV) Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

Most Christian persons are not aware and most Churches do not practice it but if one is going to tithe , a portion of the tithe recieved for the tithe was to be used to help the poor persons according to the Bible... but the way a portion of the tithe could be used for yourself as well..

(2 Cor 8:1 KJV) Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia; 2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. 3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves; 4 Praying us with much entreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. 5 And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.

"They first gave themselves to the Lord, and then to us by the will of God." Here is the basic underlying principle of all giving, of all stewardship. It brings us full circle to where we began---responding to God. Stewardship is a matter of realizing that not only does everything that we have belong to God, but that we belong to Him too. Stewardship involves giving ourselves to God, allowing Him to be Lord of our lives, allowing all of our decisions to be made on the basis of His standards and His principles and His instructions, because you see, the basic principle of giving involves giving yourself to the Lord before you ever give a dime of money to anything. "

There were four seperate tithes in Israel under the Old Covenant... not just the ten percent..  Can anyone show me where in the New Testament we can next find any of the New Testament Believers in Christ believers paying tithes specifically, or any of the Apostles asking for tithes? Well? Where? It does not exist in fact! yes we are to give love offerings according to our willingness and what we have.
The tithe was also paid directly to the storehouse only every 3rd year? and the other two years the tither himself enjoyed the tithes himself by feasting on it?

(Deu 12:17 KJV) Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine handDeu 14:23 KJV) And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29 (NIV) 22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 2 5 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own. 28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Also, every third year, the Israelite was required to store his tithe in his own town to feed the fatherless, aliens, and widows as required by the Lord. This was the tithe of the poor. (ma’aser ani)(Deuteronomy 14:22-29, 26:12-15) (Amos 4:4-5)

Deuteronomy 26:12-15 (NIV) 12 When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.

Furthermore the Old Testament Levites, the pastors, and the poor persons who would enjoy the benefits of the tithes they did not own or could not own any land, or a house. The Lord God stated that the Levites would have no inheritance of land but would be given a portion of the tithe instead.Such an injunction would also apply today to anyone claiming a right to a tithe too.

Numbers 18:20 (NIV) 20 The LORD said to Aaron, "You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites..

(Gal 3:11 KJV) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
 
I am also not against voluntary tithing to the Lord Jesus Christ, or voluntary giving to the Lord Jesus Christ, AND to the poor persons. I am against trying to earn, buy your way into heaven, and also giving on the too often false man defined mandates that the still mostly false pastors themselves do define it..by the too many mostly false pastors?
Hey I ran a home church for many years and I never passed the plate,  and the last 20 years of pastoring i have never asked from anyone a dime for the ministry too.. God looks after me. Too many hirelings begging and stealing the poor people's money still in the ministry
 
I too would like to see a pastor live a sermon and not just preach it..  being first a sunday school teacher  for many years I also do know firstand know that a Pastor's job is to teach, help support, heal, rebuke as well

I have said often that if you do a good job looking after the sheep then you do not have to ask for money or a raise, the Master himself, Jesus will pay you what you deserve.
 
(Prov 27:23 KJV)  Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds.24  For riches are not for ever: and doth the crown endure to every generation? 25  The hay appeareth, and the tender grass showeth itself, and herbs of the mountains are gathered. 26  The lambs are for thy clothing, and the goats are the price of the field. 27  And thou shalt have goats' milk enough for thy food, for the food of thy household, and for the maintenance for thy maidens.
 
(Mat 12:43 KJV)  (Mat 12:43 KJV)  When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from  45   Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. 
 
(Malachi 2:1 KJV And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. 2  If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. 3  Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it. 4  And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 5  My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. 6  The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity. 7  For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9  Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law. 10  Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? 11  Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god. 12  The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts. 13  And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand. 14  Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. 15  And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. 16  For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away( Divorce) : for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously. 
 
(Mal 2:17 KJV)  Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
 
It is a continual  fact that God blesses one person, and curse the other even at the same time, for people do next reap what they had sowed in fact and had not even repented of it too..
(Joel 1:16 KJV)  Is not the meat cut off before our eyes, yea, joy and gladness from the house of our God?
 
(Isa 65:14 KJV)  Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
 
I heard someone say as a supposed justifications of their sins of lying by saying that "everyone sins, even lies"..  two wrongs do not make one right..  all  lying, even flatteries,  slanders, are still  really unacceptable sins towards  God. They the unacceptable liars personally do even lie to themselves and others when they say that they next personally will  not reap any negative consequences for their sins here on earth.. but this itself is a really big lie originated first by the Devil, Satan, in the garden of Eden, as well as being continued still now by him to all persons now too.
 
(Jer 9:1 KJV)  Oh that my head were waters, and mine eyes a fountain of tears, that I might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of my people!  2  Oh that I had in the wilderness a lodging place of wayfaring men; that I might leave my people, and go from them! for they be all adulterers, an assembly of treacherous men. 3  And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD. 4  Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders. 5  And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity. 6  Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith the LORD. 7  Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will melt them, and try them; for how shall I do for the daughter of my people? Their tongue is as an arrow shot out; it speaketh deceit: one speaketh peaceably to his neighbour with his mouth, but in heart he layeth his wait. 9  Shall I not visit them for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

10  For the mountains will I take up a weeping and wailing, and for the habitations of the wilderness a lamentation, because they are burned up, so that none can pass through them; neither can men hear the voice of the cattle; both the fowl of the heavens and the beast are fled; they are gone. 11  And I will make Jerusalem heaps, and a den of dragons; and I will make the cities of Judah desolate, without an inhabitant. 12  Who is the wise man, that may understand this? and who is he to whom the mouth of the LORD hath spoken, that he may declare it, for what the land perisheth and is burned up like a wilderness, that none passeth through?
 
13  And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them,
  • and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein;
  • 14  But have walked after the imagination of their own heart,
  • and after Baalim, which their fathers taught them:
They wrongfully disobey God daily too but also do what they want as per their own eyes, their own goals, and they are materialistic minded, pursing the false idols of money, useless wealth material things..

15  Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will feed them, even this people, with wormwood, and give them water of gall to drink.
 
16  I will scatter them also among the heathen, whom neither they nor their fathers have known: and I will send a sword after them, till I have consumed them. 17  Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Consider ye, and call for the mourning women, that they may come; and send for cunning women, that they may come: 18  And let them make haste, and take up a wailing for us, that our eyes may run down with tears, and our eyelids gush out with waters. 19  For a voice of wailing is heard out of Zion, How are we spoiled! we are greatly confounded, because we have forsaken the land, because our dwellings have cast us out. 20  Yet hear the word of the LORD, O ye women, and let your ear receive the word of his mouth, and teach your daughters wailing, and every one her neighbour lamentation. 21  For death is come up into our windows, and is entered into our palaces, to cut off the children from without, and the young men from the streets. 22  Speak, Thus saith the LORD, Even the carcases of men shall fall as dung upon the open field, and as the handful after the harvestman, and none shall gather them.
 
23  Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24  But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise  lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
 
False pride is another one of those unacceptable NS personally also a very  deadly sin too
 
25  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; 26  Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.
 
(1 John 1:9 KJV)  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
(1 John 1:10 KJV)  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
(Luke 3:8 KJV)  Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.9 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
 
(Gal 6:7 KJV)  Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
 
they will reap what they sow here on earth too.. as well as after their death.

While God has called us to Salvation by, through our faith in the finished Jesus Christ, being a Christian includes us all also living for Christ while here on earth. God he has also called us to holiness, walking RIGHTEOUSLY WITH God daily, but in the reality many Christians are not even doing this.

Jeremiah 2:13 For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me,The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns, That can hold no water.

Romans 12:1 I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

Ephesians 4:1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, entreat you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called.

Too many Christians, most in fact are still wrongfully worldly minded.. wrongfully trying to become rich even instead of really serving Jesus Christ... and why when

Ephesians 1:3, 6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,... 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

John 1:14, 16 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. ...16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.

John 6:27-29 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man shall give to you, for on Him the Father, even God, has set His seal." 28 They said therefore to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men.

God in his goodness who now also gave us freely of his son for our sins he next will also give us all of what we need too here on earth as well, all we have to do is to trust him and to serve Him.

(Mat 6:33 KJV) But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

(Mat 6:34 KJV) Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

"(2 Corinthians 2:6 NKJV) But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.

(2 Corinthians 2:7 NKJV) So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. (emphasis added)

(2 Corinthians 2:8 NKJV) And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

People definitely shouldn't feel obligated or pressured to give. If they are pressured to do so, it's not good, because it's "grudgingly". Even if a person can give a lot of money and does so every Sunday, it's also not good as it is out of routine. "God loves a cheerful giver", just like the lady who gave her last gold coins humbly and quietly while the Pharisees where giving a lot and boasting."

I think the most important thing is that God wants us to give is to give our lives to Him. Accepting Christ into our hearts, living every moment for Him, and spreading the joy He's given us is the most important 'giving' we can do for Him. '

 ThOSE WERE  good verses too. God really loves a cheerful giver, one who freely gives humbly, without boasting 

(Mark 12:41 KJV)  And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

But Jesus watches as to how people give as well..

(Acts 6:2 KJV)  Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.3  Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

Nevertheless are not the replies above here mainly all very clear that God is also presently concerned as to how the donations are, were being used? As good stewards are we not also responsible to insure that the donated money is spent as per God's will, and even insure it is being used to help the poor people.. and was that now why the Apostles specially appointed deacons, plural, too look after the distribution to the poor and needy persons? and is it not a fact that the majority of churches do not give 1/7 of their income to the poor people, even in their own churches and why not?

Giving is no substitute for proper stewardship as well.

and as a direct result of proper stewardship

(Acts 6:6 KJV)  Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

(Acts 6:7 KJV)  And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

"Woe be to the shepherds .. that do feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe ye with the wool, ye kill them that are fed; but ye feed not the flock. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and cruelty have ye ruled them." Ezekiel 34;2-4

(Luke 16:2 KJV)  And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.

(Luke 16:9 KJV)  And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

(Luke 16:10 KJV)  He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

(Luke 16:11 KJV)  If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

(Luke 16:12 KJV)  And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

(Luke 16:13 KJV)  No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

(Luke 16:14 KJV)  And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

(Luke 16:15 KJV)  And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

(Luke 16:16 KJV)  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

(Luke 16:17 KJV)  And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

(Luke 16:18 KJV)  Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

and what now has the giving of money to do with divorce?
 
(Exo 20:17 KJV) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
 
and is this why churches and pastors too many times allow divorce wrongfully  .. they too are covetous..

(1 Cor 13:3 KJV) And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

One of Jesus own first act was negative.. chasing the hirelings, money lenders out of the temple.. the apostles dealt with the issue of donations now too..   Jesus and the Apostles too cared how the money was exchanged in the church.. it was an indication of one's values.

(Acts 5:9 KJV) Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

In the book of Acts the death of Ananias, is negative, one of the Apostle own negative act was to deal with monetary falsehoods in the church.

(Acts 5:3 KJV) But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
 
(Hag 1:5 KJV)  Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.
 
(Hag 1:6 KJV)  Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
 
(Hag 1:7 KJV)  Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

(Gal 6:7 KJV) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
 
(Luke 12:33 KJV)  Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
 
How much clearer that that Jesus says that christians are to give Alms, to give to the poor people..

So we never do have to wrongfully strive even mainly to get rich but rather should be trying in love serving one another, serving, praising and worshipping God here on earth right now as well.

On top of that too many Christians are being subject to false religious man made rules trying to please mere men over God too.. or they are are wronfully trying to earn their personal way still into heaven, some even by abusing others with their unkindness, false gospel presentations too.
 
(Jer 9:23 KJV)  Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24  But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise  lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works,otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Furthermore the just shall live by faith in God to save, to heal, to provide now too.. that means all Christians and not just pastors, missionaries..
   
 
The Water downed milked Christians often do not want to hear any negative messages, they like only the fast, instant meals, rather the non nourishing ones.
 
Jesus, Repentance of our sins is an other  thing that unites us.,and the Bible as well.  
 
in reality all of of the prophets used negative messages to warn the others even, even about the man false prophet, false teachers, hireling.. and if we took out all the negatives in the Bible we would have to rip out 3/4 of the bible.

(1 Tim 5:20 KJV) Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

(Rev 3:19 KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

God bless you.